layers and appearances
This is the last post before I leave with light bagage, a bike and freed from any burden for Bordeaux in France. Eventually, I will be able to post from time to time… we will see. If not: See you again soon, August 7 at the latest, continueing on talking perfumery and perfumes. In the mean time you analyze and think about the perfumery working desk of a messy perfumer and some formula aspects of the Orris scent…..
I got some mails lately and have also seen some comments on: What’s in the Orris scent? You will understand, that I can not share the formula entirely with what went in there in which amount. But I would like to post nevertheless the key ideas behind it, outlining why there is a cinnamon, rose, pepper impression on some and why others get more citrus, woody ambergris or even others get a rose in front of vanilla. I will therefore describe the key notes (that I find key) and what went in there, not mentioning the minor additions or roundening up ingredients.
The formula is complex and featuring Agarwood which happens to be expensive if you want to get the real thing like the CO2 extract quality from Eden Botanicals, probably the most reliable, trustworthy and best source for Agarwood. The complexity of the fragrance leads to an multitude of impressions, an appearance that is like a facetted piece of jewelry, reflecting in all colours of the light….
In the body of the scent you find the notes: Ambergris, Sandalwood, Vetiver and Agarwood. In the formula this translates to: Ambroxan, Sandalore, Sandalwood from Australia, Sandalwood from Mysore, Vetiverol, Vetiver, Methylcedrylketon, Agarwood. The two qualities of Sandalwood are important, as the Australian Sandalwood adds to the spicyness and the Mysore quality brings in a flowery aspect. Sandalore allows to extend the note and lift it. The Agarwood is the CO2 extract and is …. just a dream to work with.
In the middle of the scent you find the notes: Frankincense, some smokeyness, and the extension of the Orris/rose from the head eventually with some cinnamon. In the formula this translates into: Birchtar (just a hint…) , a tiny winy little bit of cinnamon bark, CO2 extracted again, just a touch because of Ifra and because it is very fast overpowering, Hydroxycinnamaldehye, and the best Frankincense on the market, which is from india, CO2 extracted again.
In the head of the scent, extending into the middle you find the notes: Orris, rose, pepper, cinnamon (see above) and yellowish citrus. In the formula this translates into:
Rose accord: Geraniol, Damascenone, Bulgarian Rose absolute, Phenylethylalcohol, Lemongrass, Linalool, Benzylsalicylate. With the Orris remaining a big mystery…. the spicyness is black pepper and the citrus notes are Grapefruite, white and Bergamot, of course with the lemongrass from the rose accord playing in, too.
There are quite a few its and bits that rounden up the scent, brighten it a little bit, and a few mystery compounds….
Bottom line of all this: It is rather complex, rather expensive scent and with a lot of naturals that are complex in themselves. This complexity adds to the appearance and lets the fragrance shine quite differently on different skins.
Â
July 21st, 2006 at 9:27 am
What an amazing proliferation of notes Andy. Thank you so much for enlightening us on the mysteries of the scent. The addition of the Agarwood explains why I got a reminder of Dark Rose, that also contains Agarwood mixed in with the rose and other spice notes.
Have a wonderful holiday and take care.
July 21st, 2006 at 10:14 am
Sounds like something someone might want to market (i mean you) - is there no way to substitue the more expensive ingredients perhaps for slightly cheaper ones and get the perfume in your collection for sale?
I am facinated by the shere variety and complexity. I have always admired the iris fragrances and what you have created is growing on me day by day and is on the top of my iris list (along with Iris Silver Mist - but it is a totally different iris). Thank you for creating this (and I am sure that you have documented the formula).
Did you create this specially for someone or was it just created for the 1 year anniversary? I wonder how you are going to surpass this fragrance next year, let alone when you have an anniversary like 10 years or even a golder Jubelee :-)
THANK YOU FOR HAVING BROUGHT THIS FRAGRANCE TO THE WORLD (well, almost).
k.
July 21st, 2006 at 11:09 am
Thanks for this insight, Andy. I’m intrigued by the lack of leather - goodness knows what my nose is actually picking up in the headnotes! This really is the most superb perfum; I reserved it for my greatest Perfume Moment last night - going to the movies - I love the intensity of the relationship with one’s fragrance in the dark and stillness, and always pick a perfume that will delight me. So I sat in the darkness with my mind thinking…’you know, there’s vetiver in this…’. A scent which can distract one from Johnny Depp is powerful indeed! As a matter of interest, have you ever worked out how much this would sell for? (Hint, hint :-))
July 21st, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Dear Barry
I find the (real) Agarwood and the rose from Bulgaria to be a wonderful combination. So dark, indeed, and sensual and mysterious….
Dear Konstantin and Dear Nina
Thank you both for your nice and motivating comments. (Nina…don’t worry about the leather. This is the birchtar, trust me, you just happen to have a sensitive nose, picking up this little, very little birchtar, joined with agarwood giving a somewhat leathery, animalic impression. I am thrilled basically that you discovered it!)
There , of course, would be ways to bring the fragrance to the market.. make for instance 30 ml, and sell it somewhat higher priced. Sustitutions: If I look at the formula, I must admit that there are limits to reduce expensive compounds. Let’s start with the agarwood. There I use the CO2 extract, as mentioned, I already use some Agardough replacement to fill it up and extend the natural agarwood. This replacement/substitute is somewhat more economical, but I have to admit: I won’t replace the agarwood, without leaving an empty place.
Then there is the Frankincense. There I see room to improve, making adjustments and substituting part of it. The rose is ok, the orris ….hmmm, difficult to make it “more economical” .
I have a rough calculation made (over the thumb)… it could be done…at 30 ml for a “affordable” price, more than I charge for other fragrances… but still payable…. There will be time to think about it in the coming weeks.
July 21st, 2006 at 4:21 pm
Are you using iris butter or iris CO2 extracted? the latter is much cheaper but I am not sure about the quality - I am unfamiliar with the former and I haven’t had the latter for ages.
July 21st, 2006 at 4:54 pm
Andy - have a fantastic holiday - I’m off to Galicia on Monday but more walking to be done than cycling!
I haven’t yet commented on the Orris, simply because I haven’t yet found the words to describe it. I will do, on the perfume of life thread at some point. Suffice to say, it will be highly favourable.
July 21st, 2006 at 5:32 pm
Andy, thank you for the sample! I just did a brief test yesterday, and I got quite a bit of leather! You did an excellent job! I plan to do proper testing soon.
July 21st, 2006 at 7:12 pm
Have a great holiday, Andy - hope the weather is as good over there as it is here in the UK! 30ml would be simply wonderful. I’d just have to buy it two bottles at a time. (I’m quite serious. You can’t imagine how much I love this!)
July 22nd, 2006 at 1:14 am
Dear Andy,
Thank you for for the sample and a little insite in the way you create. The heart and base notes of the Orris I really like it’s complex soft woody and a bit leather and amber like, but I find the top notes a bit harsh. Now that you name some of the notes you’ve used I know that must be the birch tar. At first I thought it was wintergreen that I smelled. Birch tar is called to be a base note but it seems that it always apears in the topnotes as well.
Have a nice holiday! Please post some photo’s of your trip for us.
July 22nd, 2006 at 5:31 am
I will post my impressions of the orris as soon as I receive it and had had time to test it.
Thank you very much for the introduction a couple of days ago.
Have a great holiday!
July 22nd, 2006 at 9:34 am
Dear Andy!
After your explanation of notes I believe that this scent was made specially for me - agarwood, birchtar (leather), orris, sandalwood… What notes could be added? Just something to round it, maybe…
It`s made me feel like `Dear postman! Please hurry to bring me that wonderful sample!`
Right now I`m salivating over about that scent and could buy it blind as I like it by description of notes and your art of making perfumes…
All the best in your trip to France!
July 22nd, 2006 at 1:30 pm
No orris here yet. Good thing I’m a patient person!
As far as the Oud, I do like and appreciate Will’s CO2, but find it missing much from the EO or attar, in the way your find the synth version missing something. I have a selection of Ouds going back to a precious one that’s 35 yo, and they’re all so rich and complex. Plus, they have the hypnotic effect known of real Oud, they can *really* slow down your brain activity from Beta to Alpha waves, or slower, totally relaxing you ;-)
Sniff that stuff, and you wouldn’t be able to pedal on your trip, you’d want to take a nap!
Bon Voyage, take lots of pics, eat great food, have fun.
July 22nd, 2006 at 6:49 pm
Hello Andy,
I hope your vacation is well. I have been wearing your Orris today and enjoying it immensely. I see that others have noted a leather note, so I am not alone in that thought. I get the initial blast of rose quite strongly, and then it seems to move quite quickly to a leather note. It reminds me of the classics of the 20’s and 30’s but in an interpretive(not literal) way.
It is extremely warm and humid here and I find the scent goes to quickly; I imagine in cooler weather it will be great. Do you plan on producing this.
Thank you for the generous sample, again, and I hope you do produce this!
Kind regards,
Dennis
July 22nd, 2006 at 6:49 pm
Hello Andy,
I hope your vacation is well. I have been wearing your Orris today and enjoying it immensely. I see that others have noted a leather note, so I am not alone in that thought. I get the initial blast of rose quite strongly, and then it seems to move quite quickly to a leather note. It reminds me of the classics of the 20’s and 30’s but in an interpretive(not literal) way.
It is extremely warm and humid here and I find the scent goes too quickly; I imagine in cooler weather it will be great. Do you plan on producing this.
Thank you for the generous sample, again, and I hope you do produce this!
Kind regards,
Dennis
July 24th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
Thank you for sharing the notes and I am almost beside myself with anticipation for the sample!
I think 30ml would be perfect, I wish more perfumes came in that size, actually!
Have a great vacation!
Catherine
July 25th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
I just received my wonderful Orris sample, and I am in love! Like some others, I pick up a little leather, agarwood, orris, rose. It is a beautiful, ethereal scent–I only wish I could get more! Thank you for this!
July 26th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
Andy:
I am absolutely enchanted - your Orris is wonderful!!! On me, I get mostly iris with warm spices and wood and it is a perfect balance, not overly of any category - I do get a little extra zing somewhere about 15 min into it - is this the cinnamon and frankincense? Anyway, this little “zing” is very enjoyable, but I wouldn’t want it to go on and on - I do get whispers of it later in the drydown which I adore. Overall, it lasts a long time on me, and it is a very soothing, comfortable fragrance, special but easily worn. The way it works on me reminds me a little of Ormonde Jayne’s Woman - I don’t mean they are similar - no, no, not at all, only the feelings it brings about - just the soft power and “specialness” behind the fragrance is very compelling and very hypnotic. Maybe in both cases it is the quality of the raw materials shining through a perfectly constructed formula, like a lovely diamond that is also cut and polished “just right”?
Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for sharing this creation, and of course clamor (with all the others) to have it brought into production - irregardless of price! :)
For now though, I will just enjoy and savor it!
All the best,
Catherine
July 30th, 2006 at 3:33 am
Andy, I know I come across sometimes on the Perfume Posse blog as flip, and crass, and abrasive. I am, right now, this second, being as sincere as anyone can be. Okay, are you ready? I am asking — begging — you to consider bringing this one to market. I have read your answer above in the comments, which leads me to believe there is some hope that you might do so. Orris was so beautiful I cried. It’s true. You reduced me to tears. I am haunted by this fragrance. I keep trying to order my thoughts sufficiently for a blog post, and I will do so, but I wanted to thank you for creating something so astonishing.